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Howard Jameson

Surely not. I cannot imagine an iDubya. The silly man didn't realise you had to take the coat hanger out of the jacket first.

Tim

He'd be more likely to use a Dell DJ, methinks, "because it's cheaper". Mind you, he hasn't exactly been backward in coming forward to spend, spend, spend on all that warmongering...

ray

brothers,
i love the conversation that takes place concerning spiritual matters, kingdom matters. it bothers me that you all use this as a political forum caring not that there may be some of your brothers from the US who have a different take on my president who is a man of great faith in God, redeemed like many of us, who is doing what he feels will help keep another tragic event like 9/11 from happening again to those who are under his care. i know that this is not my site to control, but out of unity, please keep the hostile and disrespectful rhetoric down. please hold it for some other place and time.

jon birch

sorry ray... it's just that many of us are very scared of george bush... we feel the world is a more dangerous place as a result of his behaviour towards iraq... and what has iraq got to do with 9/11 anyway? we feel he always takes the side of the major corporations... oil, drugs, and insurance companies to name but a few. We genuinely feel he has no real interest in the rest of the world... we feel he makes bad decisions about how we care for Gods creation... unless it affects americas interests, or rather, standard of living, or rather, standard of living for a few.
we genuinely feel that george bush makes the world more 'wobbly'.
many of us are equally critical of our own governments... we have our jokes about them too... possibly because we feel powerless to effect real change and sometimes get frustrated. but i also must say that george bush is no more above having a few jokes told at his expense than i am. feel free to call me names! sometimes the jokes though do take our eye off the real reasons why many of us are very worried indeed that bush will be granted a second term.
the more connections i make with america, including a lovely new american friend the more i realise i love america... i've had some great debate and really enjoyed learning... i watched all the debates and follow american politics as closely as our own (i'm no expert mind you!)... i'm beginning to understand what issues a floating voter in the states has to struggle with... abortion, stem cell research, medicare, iraq, moralisms and rhetoric flying from all angles on subjects far more complex than have ever been presented by either candidate... it's tricky.
i love the sojourners strap line... "God is not a republican... or a democrat!" i like it because i believe it to be true. also... i do believe politics to be a spiritual matter.
i am sorry for any offense some of our jokes might cause... i wish you all the best as you work out your vote... and God bless you.

jon birch

sorry ray... it's just that many of us are very scared of george bush... we feel the world is a more dangerous place as a result of his behaviour towards iraq... and what has iraq got to do with 9/11 anyway? we feel he always takes the side of the major corporations... oil, drugs, and insurance companies to name but a few. We genuinely feel he has no real interest in the rest of the world... we feel he makes bad decisions about how we care for Gods creation... unless it affects americas interests, or rather, standard of living, or rather, standard of living for a few.
we genuinely feel that george bush makes the world more 'wobbly'.
many of us are equally critical of our own governments... we have our jokes about them too... possibly because we feel powerless to effect real change and sometimes get frustrated. but i also must say that george bush is no more above having a few jokes told at his expense than i am. feel free to call me names! sometimes the jokes though do take our eye off the real reasons why many of us are very worried indeed that bush will be granted a second term.
the more connections i make with america, including a lovely new american friend the more i realise i love america... i've had some great debate and really enjoyed learning... i watched all the debates and follow american politics as closely as our own (i'm no expert mind you!)... i'm beginning to understand what issues a floating voter in the states has to struggle with... abortion, stem cell research, medicare, iraq, moralisms and rhetoric flying from all angles on subjects far more complex than have ever been presented by either candidate... it's tricky.
i love the sojourners strap line... "God is not a republican... or a democrat!" i like it because i believe it to be true. also... i do believe politics to be a spiritual matter.
i am sorry for any offense some of our jokes might cause... i wish you all the best as you work out your vote... and God bless you.

ray

thanks jon,
that is very gracious of you. Iraq is a difficult situation to deal with. After 9/11 our world crumbled before our eyes. nothing like this had ever happened before and we have determined not to let this happen again. There are some who believed that Iraq played a part in that tragic day, probably most initially, but after the facts came out, most realized that they did not. We did feel that Sadaam was actively looking for an opportunity to do us harm. His WMD program, we now now, was on hold as he was waiting for sanctions to be lifted to get materials he needed to continue. He confused things quite a bit because, while he was telling the world he had stopped everything, the Dulfer report showed that Sadaam told his own cabinet they still had those weapons and it wasn't until our countries forces were outside almost to Baghdad that he told them they did not exist.
Long range, what happened in Iraq will help those people in that region. We need to all be praying that it does turn out to be a blessing for that region. What has happened, whether we like it or not, still has happened. The only One who can turn this into something wonderful is God and it, as everything, needs to have His touch.
Remember this, Nazi Germany was not an immediate threat to the US, but we saw that it was an important thing to fight facism, and that the people in Europe were worth helping, worth ssacrificing the lives of brave young men. Sadaam was one of the worts tyrants in history and they are still finding mass graves of people he murdered, the most recent ones filled with innocent young children and their mothers. The people under the thumb of that truly evil man, were of value and deserved help. Whatever our motivation was for going in, that is the result.
I am sorry for the length and the political direction of this post, but I felt led to let you know how many of your brothers and sisters across the Atlantic feel. I also want you to know that one of these brothers of yours is a man who spends much time in prayer, much time listening to God for direction, and has been ridiculed by many for his faith in God. He is also considered to be a warmonger by people in other countries.
I encourage all of you to pray for us and our president, maybe even join this movement praying for Bush. Also, don't believe everything that the media says about Bush, ours, as, i'm sure, with yours has certain biases that tend to be rather transparent.
I have been praying daily for leaders of your nations and my spiritual siblings, sharing the same adoptive parent. Especially those whom I came to know and love in the UK (Nottingham, Bristol, Aylesbury, Sterling, Glascow, Aberdeen, and Skye).
Much love and God's grace to you,
raymond, a child of the King

ray

the link for the movement didn't work. it can be found here: http://www.heartlight.org/fast/

jon birch

hi ray. i think one of the reasons why so many outside of the states would rather kerry than bush is his desire to talk and enter into relationship with others in the west. bush has stated that he doesn't want others making americas decisions, but that's a fudging of the issue because that was never on the table. good relationships make you strong not weak. the weapons inspectors inside iraq were doing a fine job... there were no weapons, and it was no surprise to me to find this out... because that was not what the war was/is about (but that's another discussion). the world, especially those in iraq needed rid of suddam... in relationship with the iraqi people this could have been achieved, but invasion is never right. where will it end, what about indonesia, etc.etc.
world terrorism has never before seemed so terrifying... in britain we have had to deal with ira attacks over the years... when i was a kid, i myself narrowly missed a bomb blast. but big strides have been made and bombs from the ira are no longer something we fear, this has all been done through dialogue. jerry adams used to be hated, now people are beginning to understand where he's coming from and beginning to judge him in his context... this can only happen through relationship.
i feel that america mustn't batton down the hatches and go defensive. it must for all our sakes work in relationship.
i try not to base my opinions on someone by what i read... as i said, i watched the unedited debates and have seen chunks of campaign speeches. it is actually what bush says and does that puts fear into so many people.
any way that'll do for now. i join you in prayers for peaceful outcomes and a world without terror for muslims and christians alike. proost my friend! jon.

ray

jon,
i find it a wonderful thing that we can still disagree and be united by the true vine. i am a firm believer that we are called to be unified but not identical. God takes us down different paths and brings us to different perspectives for purposes too big and wonderful to comprehend ultimately planning on us to arrive in the Home He is even now preparing for us and those who we meet on the way and encourage to join us on the journey. Occasionally He allows us to meet others on the journey as paths converge and we realize again how many different and interesting paths there are on the journey and how magnificently creative the Master Designer is.
it is indeed a pleasure to cross paths with you.

ray

jon birch

cheers ray... i'll be watching the election results as they come in with a friend and i will think of you rejoicing as bush once again wins out. i'll be cheering kerry on though. it reminds me of when i go to the pub to watch arsenal v man utd... i'm an arsenal supporter (best team in the world), my friends support man utd... but i believe Gods grace is big enough even for them! seeya, j.

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